I don't have time to comment on all the chapters I've read, but I have to comment on the section about the Prosperity Gospel. If you've read this already, isn't this just so true??? First of all, I'm really appalled at these so-called "Christian pastors" who strut around and tell this "other gospel" to these people. Second of all, I'm really appalled that those who preach this false gospel is filling their churches with 5,000, 10,000.. 30,000 people!!! (Joel Osteen) It's disgusting!! If they would read even a portion of their Bible, they would see how much it goes against what Christ had preached. I especially like the one that promised to give the secret reason why God wanted $27 if you sent it!! Yikes!!
What is so bad is that many churches have fallen into this trap, not just those preaching health and wealth. How many churches go into debt? How many have extravagant programs? How many have luxurious furniture? How many are paid in the 6 figures for their pastoral service?
What is very convicting - something that I've already been convicted about but have recently found myself excusing - is the REASON why God has prospered us: "that you will abound in every good work, that you can be generous on every occasion, that others may be relieved, that you may exercise dependence upon God for all your financial needs. I have a lot to think through and discuss with Anthony - because I'm wondering about saving up for the future. What the line is? I think this would be good for discussion. Any takers?
Read (or re-read page 86) for a real spiritual punch in the gut. But the kind that you know is so true, so necessary to hear... Wow, it's incredibly powerful...
I haven't finished chapter 8 yet.. but so far it's refreshing. Why? Because he has given me a taste of heaven, a desire to be there. I believe that nothing we read or are convicted of regarding money will be of lasting change if we don't long for heaven - because without that reality and that future hope, how can we battle the ever-present, tangible temptations around us? Delayed gratification doesn't seem possible if we aren't convinced the delay is worth it. I'm going to re-read "Heaven" by Alcorn after this. I've gotten about a third of the way through. It's also excellent. Ok, I'm talking to a wall here! Someone, write in!! :-)
btw, Christina's baby is really sick and in the hospital. Chris has limited computer access. She will hopefully post later. She's finished the book!
Eternity,
Jules
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7 comments:
I'm gonna just keep talking to myself! :-D
Can you digest this statement? "Jesus is saying, "Show me your checkbook, your credit card statement, and your receipts for cash expenditures, and I'll show you where your heart it." What we do with our money doesn't lie. It is a bold statement to God of what we truly value. Money doesn't just indicate where our heart is...it determines where our heart goes.
More on the following chapters... Jules
Hi, girls....
Somewhere deep inside of me I hoped that I would become LESS convicted as I read more of this book. But, no way was that supposed to happen! :) Truly, this book has opened up wounds & helped to shed scales & challenged me deeply. I'll comment on chapt. 5-8 in a separate post, but in this one I want to share something specific that God is doing in me. I've had a heart for single moms (particularly several of my friends who've been left by their husbands). I've watched them struggle financially and depend on God to provide every last penny. I've been able to financially help them if we've been given a $$ gift or a bonus at work....but what about during the rest of the year? They still have needs then too & when they tell me about them I can't help because I'm strapped from my own WANTS & our pile of debts. I want to become debt-free for more than just to say "I'm debt-free, mission accomplished". I want to truly be free to give on a regular (monthly??) basis to people around me who need help with their gas bill or with paying for their blood pressure medication or whatever the need might be. I've been living in ignorance & that ignorance has been full of my fat & happy spending. I ran into a gal from our home school group the other day--her husband quit a job with insurance to begin an at-home business. The business is just starting up, but doing well. However, she hadn't taken her B.P. meds for over 6 months because of no insurance. Needless to say, her health problem caught up with her. This burdened me to hear about her not being able to take care of a basic need...and here I am spending willy-nilly. I'm seeing first-hand what it means to really be burdened for using our money to invest in eternity & help others, bless others, be used by God to provide for others. I'm beginning to develop a plan to set aside money each pay period to use specifically for helping others in need---so it's there when someone mentions difficulty paying their bills, etc. Giving them a $100 gift card to Wal-Mart might allow them to use their grocery money for other things then. This is just the beginning of what God is teaching me--I desire to be open to hearing Him & to being used by Him. And I pray He will be glorified!!
Wendy,
I have been thinking about your post for the last few days. I agree, there are so many needs around us and yet, we see our own immediate wants and our desire to make ourself "fat" and spend it all on memememe!
One thing you said really hit home and my sister Christina and I were discussing it today. I don't think it's a question of being generous or not. I know that all of us have quite generous hearts. However, because of the spending choices we've made, when the time comes and the need arises we don't even have 2 pennies to rub together. Your idea of saving on the side is very consistent with what Scripture says. Paul wrote that before he comes to visit, that the believers were to have a collection laid aside ahead of time. In principle, it works for weekly offering as well as for helping those in need. I'm thinking of doing this as well as something that goes above and beyond the portion set apart for the weekly offering. This is very hard for us though and Anthony and I are praying about this. The way our bills are, it leaves little left for other things. In some ways, I wish we didn't buy this big house and have such a cumbersome mortgage! I do believe the Lord led us to this house and His purposes are being fulfilled by allowing our home to be used to serve others in many ways.
Soooo, where do I start? I'm tempted to start when my credit cards are paid off, my budget is worked out, my little nest is prepared - but then, I wonder, is that consistent with what I've just read in Scripture? To some degree, good stewardship means just that but - Do I rob God to pay off my debts first? Yikes! So, we're starting right NOW.
Thanks for your honesty Wendy. I am SO glad that you are reading this book with me and giving me feedback - it's very encouraging. I can't wait to get together and chat more about it! Although Chris hasn't even checked the blog yet, she's read thru the book and is mulling things over - very convicted about what she's read. The Lord is working on all our hearts and I'm praying that we will not wait to start storing up our treasures in heaven.
Ok, what chapter are you on? I'm trying to keep pace. Btw, I'm reading another book called Prayer: Does it make a difference by Philip Yancey - also, very good. Boy, I wish I could read all day long (and retain everything! I would be a genius or a guru or something!)
Love Jules
Hi Everybody!
This will be my intro, not really a Chap. 5-8 focus. This is one of those books that you have to file under, "My Life Before This Book" and "After This Book". Just like meeting Christ, two paths appear and you can only choose one.
I'm going to open up about my finances to this group which is frankly terrifying to me since it's such a private matter.
Looking back last year, I can see how much God tried to warn me in this area. When I visited Julie for 5 short days last March, I was devouring all these worldly financial books like Automatic Millionaire, etc. I was determined to really be "wise" financially. Julie shoved the Treasure Principle by our book's same author and I read that too. That book was like cold water on a fire because every page contained exactly OPPOSITE of those other books. I walked away with two paths before me. Guess which path I chose?
I went back to Sacramento and bought apartments for rental property that turned out to the most repugnant work I've ever done. I bought huge life insurance policies, opened Education plans and 2 extra Individual Retirement plans. I signed my kids up for a million "important" academic and social activities.
I laid up my "treasures" on earth and then....I gave NOTHING to the Lord. In fact, because of my ambitiousness, I could no longer keep giving 10% like before. And....I'm really, really paying the price now (ask Julie!!!). I don't have enough left over to even tithe which I'm convicted is the "minimum" that we should be giving. Therein lies the problem! I said the word "left over". I keep thinking that I give God my left overs instead of thinking of "firstfruits".
Now God thru this book picked me up and plopped me between those two roads again. I really pray that we will all choose to give our money to Him so that "our hearts will follow".
I was watching Dr. Phil about people with major spending problems. The first thing the financial advisor did was make Money public and visual - they wrote every credit card debt in a huge flip chart and put it in the living room. It became a family goal to chisel away and they all rejoiced at the dwindling numbers. I don't really talk, let alone pray about what and who God wants me to help financially etc.
Christians rarely fellowship over money and what a mistake that is. What a rare blessing this is to be reading your comments and all the things that God is revealing to you. I'll be reading everyone's post now that I've plunged into this!!!
Love Chris
Chris,
I'm so glad you posted. I knew you'd say something good! Now, don't you feel better getting this out in cyberspace and confessing this? I do like / hate the idea of putting the debt on a big visible board that others can see and you pay down. instead of doing that and letting everyone who visits see what a poor steward i am, i will post something huge in my office. (so when you come in wendy, look AWAY from the bulletinboard).
Wendy and I had an awesome time of fellowship today. There were many things that just gelled when I voiced what I was thinking. Sometimes it's good just to get it out and then it starts making sense. And sometimes, when we verbalize we realize how silly or inconsistent with Scripture our thoughts are... and then the transformation of our minds start...
thank you for your honesty, both of you. i am refreshed and encouraged to have others share this with me. none of us are perfect and so often we cover up our struggles - and miss out on overcoming with the support of our Christian family. let's continue to honestly go through this together - and watch each other grow! i love this!
and wendy, thanks for your wonderful hostessing. the kids had a blast - although cayden was really acting out. sorry about that. also, ethan came up to me and said that he had a few lego pieces in his pocket that belonged to reese and promised to return it to him and to email you immediately to let him know that he had it. he was afraid he stole it. i told him only if it's intentional and / or he didn't give it back. anyway, he needs to ease his conscience a bit. :-)
ok, on to the next refining furnace- ooh, aah, hot! ouch.
In light of eternity,
Jules
I wanted to post a summary of my thoughts from chapters 5-8. As Julie & I were sharing the other day, this book has been a HUGE challenge to me...and I really am grateful for it. I am also thankful that we're reading this together because I may not have taken this all so seriously otherwise.
Chapters 5/6: "OUCH" says the church! I was deeply saddened & disgusted as I read story after story of the prosperity gospel heist going on in church upon church. I've seen this first-hand several years ago when Dave and I were attending a more 'charasmatic' church. A guest speaker told the congregation that we too should expect blessings from God--in the form of material things (yes, we could drive a Cadillac just like him). It was so shallow & obvious that we dismissed it...but there are many who live for that kind of gospel. I believe the modern-day American church does look very much like the world--"we've baptized our materialism, couched it in religious terms and affirmed it as God's plan for our lives" (p. 74). "The message was evangelical, but the lifestyle and values were Hollywood-a baptized Hollywood dressed in a Sunday suit." (p.69) The fact that so many church-goers look identical to the world in so many matters (incidences of premarital sex; divorce rates; you name it) show that we have very little wisdom & discernment when it comes to a biblical worldview overall. Our materialism is par for the course. Julie, in a recent Iron 2 Iron I wrote about why pain & struggle is so important. I was very concerned about writing that b/c of possible backlash from people on my mailing list. On p. 87 "when we claim the blood of Christ, believing that God must take away this illness...are we asking Him to remove the very things He has put into our lives to make us more Christlike?" I was hit yet again with the fact that the "name it and claim it" theology is so man-centered that following it could cause one to completely miss the beautiful transformation of becoming more and more like Christ (Romans 8:29). A good friend of mine said once that the prosperity gospel is sickening to those who are dying in China (for ex.) for their faith. Then on p. 90 it said "for any gospel that is more true in America than in China is not the true gospel" and heartily amen'ed my friend's comment.
Chapter 7--I was most struck by the illustration of having Confederate money at the end of the Civil War and how that is like storing up earthly $$ and possessions when our focus is on eternity. I want to live this way, but right now my heart is not there. I'm stuck in the muck of figuring out how to tithe, pay my bills and get to the next pay period...all the while wanting to begin paying off this debt & start saving up again. My head is whirling around--I know God is calling me to finally submit.
Chapter 8---this one has just sent me for a loop. Rewards for our works...how will that work out in heaven if there's no jealousy? I know this is what the Bible says, but I'm not wrapping my mind around it all. I know I don't need to (but that's how my brain works); I need to obey. "Being oblivious to eternity leaves us experts in the trivial and novices in the significant." Whoa. I want to live differently!!!!!!!!!
Whoa, Wendy what a whopper!
I have a few thoughts but one thing I wanted to say was that since we are going through this book together and the challenge together - perhaps we can also work on a plan together. I have exactly the same things to work on as you do - tithe (our free-will offering), paying debts, paying bills, saving money.... we need to ask the Lord to help us plan as well as exercise self-control to make this possible. hmm, maybe we should have a giant ebay-yard sale! Hmm, Chris is the ebay queen! maybe we can work something out with her? send photos so she can list it or something? are you reading this chris??
God is going to reward us for our works. it's obvious - and we will NOT be jealous of each other. perhaps we will not even realize what we have lost because of lack of obedience or taking advantage of opportunities. We would think that would cause regret or sorrow. But regardless, I do believe that it's clear that we are to store up treasures in heaven, put our $$$ into our eternal bank account. I believe that sometimes we try and imagine situations in heaven or the future by superimposing the finite feelings and knowledge we have now. then we have an imperfect and unclear picture. in cases where i don't fully understand, I pray for understanding - but i go back to what IS clear and what I CAN know through the Scriptures - and then walk in obedience.
so in this case, we don't know exactly what it will mean to receive rewards and to miss out on the rewards that could have been - but i DO see clearly that we are to seek first the kingdom and invest wisely there. so that's where i start taking steps. perhaps one day, the Holy Spirit will help me to understand better.
I forgot to show you that debt paydown - we can email each other about that. also, we can start working on a bit of a budget - which always makes me sick, but then it helps with my spending for now.
who says it's easy? :-) but it's REWARDING. :-)
love jules
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